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That's the best available to Miami. No matter how much you and the Miami fans hate to admit it the job isn't what it was when Johnson left and isn't the most desirable place to be. A bandwagon fan base, mediocre facilities, and no home field with no chance of ever having a home field. This ain't the U in the 80's Snoop and that will never exist again in Coral Gables.
I really dont know what Leach is. I dont know if hes a law suit waiting to happen, I dont know if hes a good head coach. I know hes a great offensive coach. I really dont know how he is as a leader. I know hes not that great of a recruiter in comparison to Tuberville...I just dont know.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
If Golden or Edsall are hired, I think we are playing Beamer ball. That is, a coach who is a leader. Not flashy, but one thats going to minimize mistakes and make the team tougher. Talking to a former VT offensive lineman, he always told me the reason they beat Miami, is because Miami is soft in the trenches. I agree with that and Golden or Edsall is the type of coach to fix that problem. What I dont know about those 2 coaches is if they can bring anything to the table as far as using skill position players. Neither have truely had great skill position players because its difficult to recruit to those schools.
With Sumlin, you are getting the best offensive mind of those 4 but youre going to have to get him a great staff and good defensive cooridnator. I think hes probably the best recruiter of the 4.
Tubs, I think hes a retread. I just dont see what he has to offer. I know his D's will be very good, but I wonder how many offensive coordinators he will run through before he takes the blame for his teams problems.
For the record, I want Malzahn.
In a perfect world, the guy I would want is Petersen. I just don't see him leaving Boise. He's a great offensive mind, and he also has the same mentality that you're mentioning with Edsall/Golden. That being said--no chance there.
I'm just still not sold on Malzahn b/c I contribute a lot of his meteoric rise to 6'6/250. He's had success everywhere, but the reason why he's the hot up and coming guy currently is, to me, b/c of Newton.
I will tell you this, I went to the UT/Auburn game last year, and Cam owes Malzahn alot IMO. Im basing that on what I saw him do with Cox last year. Watching Auburn play is about like watching an old Loyola Marymount bball team. They move up and down the field at such a pace it is really hard on a defense. Miami fans would enjoy it. Players would enjoy it. Thats what is so intriguing to me about the NC title game. Oregon and Auburn have the two fastest tempo'd offenses in the NCAA.
From that list to me it looks like Tubs is coming home......
Cane is right, the Miami job list just got a lot less spectacular. None of those guys are the "best coach in America" like the Miami AD was claiming.
Im with mega, Gus Malzahan HAS to be #1 on the list IMO. Who knows what the outside may do, Gus may let the kids murder each other, but they will put up points and they will win games.
But from that list, Tubbs is the only coach with experience at a big time college. Golden at Temple and Edsall at Uconn have never had to deal with the pressures of a big university. Thats a big point, those guys have never had to prove they can handle big fanbases, tough fans and a demanding program.
Tubbs has had to do that at Auburn and Ole Miss.
but Tubbs is not a great coach. He will never be a big time national title contender threat. but he will build Miami to a very solid 10 win team with a nasty defense. Maybe they can let Tubbs run it for 3-4 years then fire him when the program has increased its prestige back up and get a big time coach.
Tubs is a great defensive coach. He has proven that. Those canes defense's in the 80's where some of the best in college football history. He proved it at Texas A&M as well as Ole Miss and Auburn.
The other thing is he is a good recruiter. If he does get this job I think the first call he would make would be to Eddie Gran who is a very good recruiter as well. The only thing about Tubberville is he has to find a good OC.
But if he is hired whoever he gets is going to believe in running the football. That is who he is. He tried the wide open thing with Franklin and it was a disaster. But to me you win football games by playing great defense and running the football. Tubbs believe in those things. It aint very fancy but it works and he will win at Miami. He may not be the sexiest hire out there but he could end up being the best.....
Sorry guys. I'm not sold on Tubs. It's kind of one of those things--like when people like Jimbo Fisher, Butch Davis, and Frank Beamer all were telling Randy Shannon, "keep doing what you're doing, you're doing things the right way--we're behind you 100%", the whole time their teams are kicking your team's butt on the field. They didn't want him to succeed...their moral support was just that--moral. Secretly--they hoped we'd never fire Shannon.
For other fanbases' fans to tell me how great of a hire Tuberville would be just kind of turns me off to the idea, because I'm not sure you have Miami's best interests in mind. Might be petty of me, but oh well.
I think Tubs would have Miami winning the ACC. Maybe not a national title, but the ACC within 2 years.
See, that's where I draw the line. With the talent base that Miami gets year in/year out, Miami should be in Charlotte or Tampa or whereever every single year. I know that will upset some VT fans--but that's the truth. All that's missing is a coach to develop the talent that's already there and make it happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1inStripes
The ACC is an afterthought to me. That's why when VT fans or FSU fans talk about winning the ACC--I'm never impressed. It's expected at Miami--at least by most fans. Win the conference, and compete annually for the crystal football. If you build your team up good enough to win a national title, then the ACC is a piece of cake. I want a coach that has the ability to develop Miami to the point of being as good as the top tier ACC/Big T(welv)en teams. When that's the case, then Miami will be winning ACC titles w/o a problem and focusing on winning a national title.
Tuberville doesn't strike me as the guy for the job due to my criteria set out above.
I think that would depend completely on who he landed as OC. Him and his usual folks make Miami a serious ACC champ within 2 years. If he brought in a top notch OC, it may be national title talk in 2 years. Without that I could see him getting Miami there in 4 years and then he's probably done anyway.
Dont take this the wrong way, but you gotta contend for ACC titles before you can even think about winning a national title.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
Miami has never won an ACC title, its unfair to a coach to say I expect you to win a national title in five years when they have not even competed for an ACC title since they joined the conference.
Miami needs a coach with experience at a big time program, a coach who knows how to build a program and a coach who can deal with the pressures of a big time school. Coaching at Miami would be awesome, but it wont be easy.
With the climate now and the UF job being open, Tubberville might be the best man for the job for right now. Let him coach for five years, get Miami back to a 10-win, ACC title contender team, then go from there.
Unless they get Gus Malzahan, who would be my #1 choice now.
Biggin--that's where our thought patterns diverge.
PV didn't get to their state title games by saying "our #1 goal is to win the LPD". They got there by developing talent to compete on a state championship level. If their only focus was winning the LPD, they would have never made it out of the region.
If you continue to say as a coach, AD, or program as a whole that winning the conference is the #1 goal, you'll never reach national title contender status. I want the next coach to come in and build a winner. When we win ACC titles along the way, I'll be happy. But don't expect me to come in here and throw up an ACC title in the faces of other ACC fanbases like some of them do to us. All the conference affiliation is for any team is 1) a way to pool resources to make money, and 2) a shortcut to automatic BCS ties.
It's like when Miami was in the Big East--it wasn't the Big East title we were after. When we were independent, we didn't have a conference to win--so the goal was national title or bust. And we did that 5 times in the span of 18 years from 83 to 01.
We need a guy that has an eye on more than just the ACC, but the teams like Oregon, Auburn, Wisky, tOSU*, Stanford...for example, Beamer and VT were good enough to win the ACC, but will they be good enough to beat Stanford in the Orange Bowl? My money is on no, because most of their focus this year has been on winning the ACC.
Semi o/t.... Rivals Radio this morning said that UK demoted their DC and that they think that's where Randy Shannon might end up.
The ACC really shouldnt be that hard to win. Its a pretty bad conference and Miami has consistently been "towards" the top of the conference with a really really REALLY bad coach. Im not saying national title next year sort of thing, but I could see a very Saban like first year for the new coach should it be the right coach. I would like to see Malzahn work with Bridgewater but I know its not gonna happen. Miami was #12 this season at one point. Clearly, they were the biggest disappointment in the nation. I think they have a chance to live up to their potential. They arent playing in the SEC. Getting to the top should take no more than 2 seasons, any when I say the top, Im not saying national titles, but they will have their shot at a top 10 season next year with the right coach.
thats not what i was saying at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
im saying that Miami has to be able to contend for ACC titles before competing for national titles.
if you bring a coach in, of course his goal is to win titles.
but where Miami is now, they need to get a coach who can at least have them competing for ACC titles.
teams dont just jump from 7-win teams to winning titles in two years.
you have to build the program up, have to move up the ladder.
Miami needs to get to that level before they can talk about winning titles.
Cane, I know you don't want Tubs but I promise you I want Miami to be good again. In case you haven't noticed I am a UT fan and I live in Gate City so needless to say I get to hear about Tech everyday. I would like nothing better than for Miami to be good......Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
Except for maybe Nick Saban to get hit by a truck or something.....
I think mine and Biggins thoughts are about the same. Miami has to take that minor step before they can take the giant leap. If you can't win the ACC title, you can't win the national title.
And what I'm saying to both of you is that I don't want our program stuck in "yay, we won the ACC Title for the 8th time again, we're so great"-land, as some programs are.Quote:
Originally Posted by 1inStripes
If you plan well enough to win a national title--the ACC titles will of course come. But, if you plan for your team to be "just" good enough to win the ACC, then that's all you'll ever do. I want a guy who's focus is building a national contender from day one. If you build a national contender, conference titles will come with ease. Honestly--even if VT or another ACC team had went undefeated through their whole season and won the ACC--no way in hell they're going to Glendale to play for all the marbles.
If the conference step is so important, why was Miami winning titles as an independent back in the 80's? Because they scheduled well enough to have a strong schedule worthy of that consideration, and because they went out and built the best **** team they could, regardless of what everyone thought. For example--there were guys like Randall Hill that said they didn't care if they went to the Orange Bowl but didn't win a national title or whatever--they took the rings from winning that game and gave it away to some chick at a party. The only rings most of those guys kept, were the national titles b/c those were the ones that mattered. I want that mentality back in our locker room.
I may be irrational to some of you when it comes to this, but while I can be happy about the things Miami does throughout a season, if we don't win a national title at the end--it's a disappointment to me just like it was to those guys like Randall Hill.
I want a head coach with that same mentality. The CFB scene has changed since back then, but the plan shouldn't be that much different.
It has changed a ton though. A lot of big programs were independent in the 80s, and it was a benefit for them. They could play a couple of big games a year and that was all they really had to do. They didn't have to play teams that are familiar with their style of play every year either. Now, there isn't a quality independent left, or that has been relevant since being an independent stopped being "cool". All head coaches of any prominent program should have NATIONAL TITLE headlined in their team goals. But to do that you must win the conference first to get there. Its just not as arbitrary as it used to be, nor as easy because of that.
you're assuming that Beamer hasn't built a program with the focus on winning a national title...that's dumbQuote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
VT doesn't go out every Fall with the hope that we can somehow win the ACC...we had hoped with a win over Boise it would put us squarely in the mix for the national title...if not, then why play teams like Alabama, LSU, USC, Boise St, Nebraska out-of-conference? if you're only looking to win the ACC, why even bother to schedule those games
VT expected to win the ACC...that's a fact...they were the pre-season favorites and had the target on their back and ran through the conference unscathed
this notion that VT is a program that focuses on winning the ACC and that alone is one of the most ignorant things I've ever heard...second only to the notion that the Miami players or coaches didn't give a **** about winning the conference, and are somehow above winning the conference because of past greatness
you want a coach who wants to win national titles? that's a groundbreaking theory, as there aren't too many coaches out there who have that goal...I mean, at least 99% of the ones I know only want to have good enough seasons to get bowl eligible...none of them can even fathom dreaming big enough to win the national title...that's an interesting idea...one I'm sure Beamer has never thought of
it seems to me your line of thinking is you'd like to skip a whole bunch of steps on the way back to the top...and if anyone within the program at Miami shares your sentiments I'm sure there will be many more Meineke Car Care Bowls in your future
you want to go from having never won the conference (and only been close once or twice) straight to National Champs...all the while, not giving a **** about the ACC title along the way
so have fun with that...I'm happy to see Al Golden on that list...it would be nice to beat up on the Hoos in 2 games each year instead of 1
None of you get it at all.
I can be happy winning the ACC, but to be continually striving to get good enough just to win the conference--that I can't abide by. Miami hasn't had a coach capable of doing anything more than coming close to winning the ACC Coastal in the past 2 hires, and we haven't even done that yet. If we have a coach that's less focused on "rebuilding" and more focused on "this is what wins national titles, this is how we're going to do it", then ACC titles and being a serious MNC contender will come.
I want a coach who's greater goal is the national title and doesn't expect anything less. The company line I kept hearing out of Coker/Shannon was "we're trying to build this program back and it's going to take time". That may sound like solid coach speak, but all it was was a built in excuse for when they did, indeed, end up failing. I'm sick of father figures, I'm sick of guys who toss coach speak out there, and then make excuses like throwing their players or assistants under the bus when things don't go well.
And Drew--save the holier-than-thou condescending VT crap for someone else. You guys have a national title case that's EMPTY in your locker room. Beamer's got the right idea, but there simply is still something left that he hasn't gotten fixed yet. Now, whether it's him, his staff, the way they recruit, or something else--he still hasn't found it yet. Kudos to him for trying--I won't knock anybody for that.
However, to continually talk about how many ACC titles one has won, and take utmost pride in that, it signals to me that on some level--that's good enough for him. If Beamer ever got really upset over another ACC title and finally said something to the effect of, "this ACC title is nice, but man--sooner or later, we have to start winning national titles", I'd be impressed, and you guys would probably win one if he made that the goal. There's a certain drive he's lacking, to me, and if he'd ever exhibit it, maybe that empty title case wouldn't be so empty.
And that--in a nutshell, is why I don't want a Beamer type. I don't want to continually be teased into feeling like I'm a national title contender b/c of multiple ACC titles under my belt, only to be kicked in the nuts yearly when we don't. There aren't many of those coaches in the nation who are the guy that can take you past conference titles and into serious national title contention, and as good as Beamer is--he's starting to slip into that territory of "good, but not good enough". I don't want to get stuck with a coach like that. I want to get an elite coach who has that something extra to get us into serious contention. When we get that--ACC titles will come easily, and national titles will be the main concern.
All of that is ultimately why I'm not sold on a hire like Tuberville, Golden, or Edsall. All of those guys seem to be that "good, but not good enough" type. Could one of them build us up to win the ACC? Sure. Could one of them win a national title? Highly unlikely, in my opinion. That's why I wanted a guy like a Petersen, Leach, or Gruden. Those guys seem like to me the guy that could win a national title.
Beamer has continually said that his goal is to win the national title...I don't know where you're getting that he's complacent with winning the ACC
winning the national title does take lots of skill...but also lots and lots of LUCK, just ask Clint Stoerner
No, you dont understand what Stripes and I are saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoeburnCane
Every coach at a big program is trying to win the national title. Thats the ultimate goal for all big time coaches, winning it all.
But teams just do not jump from 7 wins to winning titles in a year. You have to build the program up, bring in better recruits, develop talent better, motivate the kids better, before you can expect to win a title.
Let's face it; the Miami cupboard is not overflowing with top shelf cookies anymore, its got a couple good cookies and the rest are non-fat wheat thins. A coach will not walk into Miami and win a national title next year, it just wont happen. There is simply not enough there to win a title with the talent there.
So you have to get a program back to the level of competing for conference titles, getting all those 5* recruits, being a national power by taking steps up the ladder. You seem to think that a team can just leap to the top, that never happens. You have to get there first. A coach has the goal of winning a national title, of course. No coach is gonna go in and say they only want to win the ACC, thats silly.
But you have to be able to win conference titles before you can win national titles. A good coach can do that. Tubberville, Edsall, etc.. have proven to be coaches who can win those games.
And like I've said, once you start competing for conference titles, have the Miami program back into the top 5, then you can honestly say you can plan to win a title.
But you seem to want a magic wand, for a coach to be hired then magically make Ed Reed and Clinton Portis-type players appear and win a national title in his first year. That does not happen, anywhere. A team has to be built to win national titles, it doesnt just happen. And to build a contender, you have to win big games, make those strides as a program.
It does not happen overnight.
And the part in bold; what has Leach or Peterson ever won that Tubbs or Edsall hasnt? Leach never won the Big XII, much less ever competed for a national title. Peterson the same. How many BCS rings do they have?
Thats my point. A national title is much, much harder to win now than it was in the 80's when Miami was an independent and didnt need a conference to win a title. Now, that will not happen. There is so much more talent spread out, so many more good teams that can beat great teams on an off night, etc.. So winning a title is a much more difficult task, and a guy like Tubberville, who has won the SEC before and build Auburn up to a national title contender (in 04, when they got screwed out of title game), has been there before, and has more experience at a top program than Leach (who has 0 Big XII titles) and Peterson (never coached at a BCS school).
Update on Malzahan;
Apparently Vanderbilt has offered Gus a SEVEN year deal guaranteed for $19 million dollars, roughly $3 mil a year.
WOW!
Sounds like Vandy may be tired of the CELLER DWELLAR name. Interesting..
I'm not asking for a magic wand. I'm asking for a focus towards winning national titles, and a coach who knows what it takes to get there--Coker nor Shannon had that. I know that it won't happen next year. I'm not expecting a national title within the next 5. I just want a guy who will develop us enough to make the ACC an afterthought and our focus be on national titles on an annual basis. I want to get there ASAP, but I realize it's gonna take some time. I'm not that stupid at all, and thanks for giving me credit to the contrary, by the way.
Tuberville got screwed out of a title game, but that was years ago. Can he ever get back there, even at Miami? I don't think he can, but that's my opinion versus yours that says he can.
I feel that Leach/Petersen have the attitudes and ability to be one of those guys who can take a program to the national title. For Petersen to come that close at Boise, speaks volumes to me. For Leach to do the things offensively that he did at TT with the leftover recruits from the west of the Big 12 says a lot too.
Tuberville's at TT now, and he has the same situation that Leach had there. I really feel that Tuberville's 7-5 would have been 9-3 with Leach at the helm, had he been on solid footing w/no controversy and the likes of what caused his departure from there. I feel if you give Leach the same team that Tuberville has had at any point in his career--he does better.
Just give me Gus. I'll get on my knees and give Kirby Hocutt a BJ if he will hire him. In Gus I trust!
Leach is too much of a HOTBED right now. No one will hire him while all his legal proceedings are still going on. He has some personal problems that would only lead to lots and lots of problems at the U. It would be the re-incarnation of THUG...
but its much easier for Peterson to beat San Diego State and New Mexico than it is for Tubbs to beat Oklahoma and Nebraska (or Alabama and LSU in the SEC).
Peterson is a great coach, and may be the next UF coach, he would be a solid hire. I think he can do great things.
but Leach, I just dont see it. I dont see him doing better in the situation Tubbs is in. Of course he does better at TT this year, its his kids who have been running his system. But put Leach in Auburn in 08, with none of his kids and no kids accustomed to running his system and see how he does.
but thats the problem with Leach. He is so focused on one side of the ball, recruits one side of the ball more, sets his team up to play one side of the ball, that it leaves much to be desired on the opposite side. Great teams have balance; you cant outscore every opponent every week, eventually you need a defense to get a couple stops. Even Oregon and Auburn this year have had to rely on defense to win games. Auburn's D beat Alabama, Oregon's D beat Cal.
Tim, stop. Just stop.
Just a few notes. I can't believe Vandy is ponying up that much money on Malzahn. Not a bad investment, but I am surprised they can afford it considering they don't even have an athletic department.
According to ESPN Insider earlier they are saying Peterson is just about setup to take the Florida job. I must say that surprised me. A Gator coworker is a little worried because of his religious background going into homes in the south. I said, whats the worst? Dan Hawkins Jr. ha
Vandy has money, they have one of if not the biggest endowment in the SEC
I know Vandy has money but this is the first time they will have put it toward athletics like this. Stallings paid out of his own pocket last year to take the trip to Australia for their preseason tour because the university wouldn't due to funds.
yeah it seems the AD Williams is really trying to make a splash and hire the hottest coordinator out there.
the Tennessean is the one reporting the contract details IIRC, but those do sound awful high.
I also heard Vandy has given Malzahan til Saturday to accept or decline the offer.
Vice Chancellor. They have no AD.
right, they dont even have an athletic department, i just use AD as a general term lol
that does irk me, if they are willing to commit $20 million to a new football HC, why are they not willing to create an athletic department? A successful basketball team, and a huge financial commitment to football would suggest they need an athletic department
They also have had a solid baseball program in recent years. Although, oddly enough it seems their success in sports (other than womens basketball) has improved since they done away with the athletic department a few years ago.
the three finalists for the Miami job are reportedly;
Randy Edsall (UConn coach)
Al Golden (Temple coach)
Marc Trestman (Montreal Allouetes coach)
lulwut
If Trestman gets it, at least he has a good excuse if they ever get caught with 12 men on the field.